---
alias:
- Advanced Theoretical Physics Working Group
- Advanced Theoretical Physics Project
- Advanced Theoretical Physics Conference
- Advanced Theoretical Physics
- ATP
- ATP Ten
- AP-10
- Secret Onion
category: UFO & Anomalous Phenomena
created: 2026-10-02
location: McLean, Virginia
relations:
- end: 1985-05-25
  fn: 5
  role: conference held at the BDM McLean secure facility, named on a Department of
    Energy visit request
  start: 1985-05-20
  type: participant_in
  with: '[[BDM Corporation]]'
summary: Informal group convened in 1985 by Army colonel John B. Alexander, meeting
  in a BDM secure facility at McLean, Virginia, to determine whether evidence supported
  a research program on UFOs.
tags:
- Organization
- UFO
- Intelligence
- BDM
- JohnBAlexander
- SecretOnion
- 1985
updated: 2026-10-02
---

The Advanced Theoretical Physics group, abbreviated ATP, was an invitation-only gathering of government and defense-contractor personnel that [John B. Alexander](/people/john-b-alexander/) organized in 1985. Alexander wrote in 2011 that "with help from a few other researchers we initiated the ATP project specifically to examine issues regarding UFOs, and what role the [Department of Defense](/organizations/department-of-defense/) (DoD) might be playing," and that admission was "by invitation only," with participants required to "have the right credentials."[^1] The overall group is called the "Secret Onion" in the journals of [Jacques Vallee](/people/jacques-vallee/).

### Origin

Alexander wrote that the idea grew from conversations with [Ron Blackburn](/people/ron-blackburn/), a retired [Air Force](/organizations/us-air-force/) lieutenant colonel then working at the [Lockheed Aircraft Company](/organizations/lockheed-aircraft-company/) Skunk Works in Burbank, whom he met in 1984 after taking over a "huge, but failing project called New Thrust" at the Army Materiel Command. Both thought, he wrote, "that there was some organization, probably within the U.S. Air Force, which had the responsibility" for UFO research, and "Roswell, we assumed, was a real UFO event."[^1] He described the premise as "There is a black UFO program someplace. Let's see if we can find it. If the rumors are right, THEY have a tiger by the tail and want help transitioning the information to the public. Somebody has got to be minding the store."[^1] He wrote that the group anticipated two outcomes: being brought into an existing program, or being "generically advised of a project and then censured."[^1] He wrote that he adopted the name "advanced theoretical physics" in order to "legally avoid answering any UFO [FOIA](/events/freedom-of-information-act/) requests," on the assumption that "no one would make the connection and request ATP reports," and that one of the rules was that no written reports be kept.[^1]

A memorandum for the record of August 1, 1984 states that the commanding general of [INSCOM](/organizations/united-states-army-intelligence-and-security-command/) had decided to transfer all [Center Lane](/programs/center-lane/) psychoenergetic activities out of INSCOM, with operational work to go to a national-level agency and research and development to the Army Medical Research and Development Command.[^2] Alexander wrote that UFOs were among his topics while he was assigned at INSCOM from 1981 to 1984 under [Albert Stubblebine](/people/albert-stubblebine/), and that Stubblebine, "following his retirement," went to work for the defense contractor [BDM](/organizations/bdm-corporation/) as "Vice President for Intelligence Operations"; Alexander wrote that the initial meetings "would be held in the BDM secure facilities in Tysons Corner, Virginia."[^1] BDM's letterhead of July 26, 1985 gives its address as 7915 Jones Branch Drive, McLean, Virginia 22102.[^3]

In 1985 BDM also provided administrative support to a [Central Intelligence Agency](/organizations/central-intelligence-agency/)-sponsored, [DARPA](/organizations/darpa/)-funded Concurrent Processing Symposium held at the West Park Hotel, Tysons Corner, July 15 to 17, and at CIA headquarters on July 18, with about 250 attendees.[^4]

### Meetings

A Department of Energy "Request for Visit or Access Approval" (form DOE F 5631.20) dated May 8, 1985, from a Los Alamos National Laboratory requester (typed "C. Vigil," symbol IT-5) and signed by the laboratory's special security officer, Michael E. Busse, asks that John Kink (as transcribed from a typed form with a partly illegible surname), Oke Shannon (typed "Shannon, Oke") and Samuel P. Finch of the laboratory (organizations typed as IT-3, IT-6 and IT) be admitted to the BDM McLean secure facility, typed as 7915 Jonesbrook Rd., McLean, on May 20 to 25, 1985, for the stated purpose, as typed, "Advance Theoretical Physics Conference (20-25 May 1985)," at the access level "TOP SECRET/RESTRICTED DATA SIGMAS AS REQUIRED."[^5] A handwritten page by [Jack Houck](/people/jack-houck/) dated May 21, 1985 and headed "Advanced Physics" carries the note "BDM Vault" with a telephone number, the line "Clearances, Known to group, Open minded," and the objective, circled, "Does the evidence support an R+D project?" with two names, the first Ron Blackburn and the second written in a hand that may be read "Don Keuble" (spelled so on Shannon's list), and the word Lockheed beside them.[^5] The Loose Threads authors attribute the page to Houck.[^5] A typed agenda among Houck's papers lists as objectives to "explore evidence presented/available to determine if further study is warranted" and, if so, whether "there [is] sufficient evidence to support an R&D (Research and Development) program," and its conclusions section sets "Truth vs. Fiction" beside "Friendly" or "Enemy" technologies, "internal" or "external," "known" or "unknown."[^5]

Alexander wrote that the initial meetings were held in BDM's secure facilities at Tysons Corner, that he needed a sensitive compartmented information facility for them, and that he informed Joseph Braddock, the "B" of BDM, who "seemed mildly curious, but exhibited no strong interest one way or another."[^1] According to the Loose Threads authors, Grant Cameron's book *Managing Magic* states that Alexander summarized the group's findings in a briefing book after ten sessions and presented it to at least one senior official in an attempt to obtain official status and a funding stream, and that the attempt was rebuffed.[^6] Alexander wrote that he, Howell McConnell and a man he called "Jack" met "a very senior official in [NSA](/organizations/nsa/) regarding what had been concluded thus far," who "was interested but had nothing to offer."[^6]

### Attendees

James "Oke" Shannon of Los Alamos kept handwritten notes. A page headed "Attendees," which the Loose Threads authors place at a meeting of August 7, 1985 labeled "ATP Ten," has two columns. The left column reads: "Me" (LANL), Bill Wilkinson ([CIA](/organizations/central-intelligence-agency/)), a blank first name with McConnell (NSA), John Alexander (AMC/USA), Bert Stubblebine (BDM), [Hal Puthoff](/people/hal-puthoff/), Jack Houck, Ed Speakman (INSCOM), Bill Souder (McD. D.), an unnamed line marked BDM, [Jake Stewart](/people/jake-stewart/) (USDRE) and Ralph Freeman (with a question mark). The right column, headed "Others," reads: McDonnell Douglas, Bob Wood; and Lockheed, Ron Blackburn, Milt Janzen and Don Keuble.[^5] According to the Loose Threads authors, Hal Puthoff appears in Shannon's notes of the first meeting as the presenter on remote viewing.[^6]

A note in Vallee's *Forbidden Science: Volume Three* (p. 480), which Keith Basterfield quotes, gives a list of "alleged participants": Samuel Finch, Oke Shannon and John Kink of Los Alamos; Bill Wilkinson of the CIA; Howell McConnell of the NSA; Hal Puthoff and Jack Houck; Ed Speakman of INSCOM; Bill Souder and Bob Wood of McDonnell Douglas; Jack Stuart of the Undersecretary of Defense for Research and Engineering; Bert Stubblebine of BDM; Ron Blackburn, Milt Janzen and Don Keuble of Lockheed; and Ralph Freeman, Gary Bright, Paul Tyler, [Ed Dames](/people/ed-dames/) and Lieutenant Colonel Mike Neery. The note ends: "Ron Pandolfi of CIA also claims to have been involved." Pandolfi's name is not on Shannon's page.[^7] Alexander wrote that McConnell had written a position paper on UFOs; the Loose Threads authors take "Jack" to be Houck.[^6] According to the Loose Threads authors, [Kit Green](/people/kit-green/) received an invitation to the meetings according to Puthoff but did not attend, and told Vallee in 1989 that he was reluctant to take part without an official funding stream.[^6]

### Vallee's Account

Vallee called the group the "Secret Onion." His journal entry of May 11, 1986 (*Forbidden Science: Volume Three,* p. 242) reads, in the passage Basterfield quotes: "To Kit I intend to present strong comments about the Secret Onion project: I have no intention of becoming part of the outer skin of some shadowy organization whose chief's I don't trust and who seem to know less than I do about the problem."[^7] In an entry of February 1990, as quoted by the Loose Threads authors, he wrote that "the enigmatic Colonel Ron Blackburn decided to come clean with me," that "He'd co-founded what I jokingly nicknamed the 'Secret Onion' group and co-organized a national panel on UFOs," and that "in the first case, his co-founder was John Alexander; in the second case, it was none other than Kit Green, who never told me about this."[^6] In an entry of August 1990 Vallee recorded that Kit Green "dismissed the 1987 report by Howard Blum about a secret group," saying that Blum "simply alluded to John Alexander's and Ron Blackburn's proposed project," that "it went nowhere," and mentioning "a rumor about something called Joint Task Force 6, and about [Dale Graff](/people/dale-graff/) setting up an interagency working group, but it was never given any responsibilities."[^6]

In a 1989 telephone conversation recorded in Vallee's journal, Vallee wrote that Puthoff "confirmed John Alexander had gone very high to get [ATP] funded"; Puthoff said Alexander "briefed the head of Norad, the head of the Space Command, the top guy at SDI, all three and four-star generals, all had given him the green light," that "a lot of people had been briefed and had agreed to cooperate," and that Alexander was then reassigned "as part of a move that affected 40,000 people in the Armed Forces" and "lost his power base." Vallee wrote that he was "unconvinced" that one person out of 40,000 could not have been kept from reassignment, and Puthoff conceded that "the plan may have been killed by someone deciding that the timing was wrong, or they were the wrong people, or the approach was bad."[^6]

### Blum's UFO Working Group

Howard Blum's 1990 book *Out There* describes a "UFO Working Group" of seventeen men convened at the [Pentagon](/organizations/pentagon/) in 1987 by an Army colonel assigned to the [Defense Intelligence Agency](/organizations/defense-intelligence-agency/), named in the book as Colonel Harold E. Phillips, with Air Force officers and intelligence-agency scientists among the members, among them, in Blum's list of affiliations, "a supervisor from the CIA's Domestic Collection Division" and "a technical team from the agency's Science and Technology Directorate." Blum wrote that two members served as his sources, that they would not disclose any names, and that the group's directive was to keep its existence secret.[^8] The Loose Threads authors write that Alexander has called Blum's account "pure poppycock," and that "Phillips" is "a pseudonym allegedly created by Blum for Col. John B. Alexander."[^6]

### Later Statements

Asked in 2018 about Alexander's conclusion that no program could be found, Puthoff answered, in the words the Loose Threads authors quote, that "somebody else [was] doing it," and that "if materials are being held in [Special Access Programs](/concepts/special-access-programs/), a casual conversation even with high-level people, who know your interest, and they're interested too, won't necessarily reveal facts."[^6] In his 2011 book Alexander wrote: "While many researchers, and even the general public, indicate they believe the U.S. Government is withholding critical information about UFOs; that is not a position in which I concur."[^1] Richard Dolan wrote in 2009 that Alexander said he had reached four-star levels in the Pentagon and found no evidence of such a program ("I've looked ... and it's not there"), and that Dolan spoke to several group members who expressed skepticism about that position, one of whom implied "an international or transnational structure" beyond control of the [U.S. government](/organizations/us-government/).[^6] On the radio program Spaced Out Radio he said that he "held some other meetings after I went to Los Alamos as well and some private stuff that went on in Santa Fe."[^6]

[Eric Davis](/people/eric-davis/)'s notes of an October 2002 meeting with Vice Admiral Thomas R. Wilson, which came to public attention from the estate of [Edgar Mitchell](/people/edgar-mitchell/), contain the abbreviation "AP-10" and a reference to a "BDM thing"; the Loose Threads authors write that Wilson has adamantly denied meeting Davis in 2002. Shannon said in a 2022 interview that in 1999 Wilson telephoned him and wanted to know "could he trust Eric Davis," adding "I think he may have even mentioned Hal Puthoff and one or two other people."[^6]

[^1]: Alexander, John B. *UFOs: Myths, Conspiracies, and Realities.* Thomas Dunne Books, 2011. The book is lending-only at the Internet Archive and was not opened; Google Books (volume id IaA8mZqhjPkC) refused automated access. Each Alexander passage here is quoted from, and the quotations were checked against, Elizondo, Daniel, and The Hermetic Penetrator, "The Intersection of Science and the Unexplained: The Loose Threads Report," Anomaly Archives, 2022, pp. 16-22, 28, 61-62, https://anomalyarchives.org/wp-content/uploads/PDF-Loose-Threads.pdf. Sole source for the passages so cited.
[^2]: Memorandum for the record, "CENTER LANE Meeting with MG Rapmund 1 August 1984," IAGPA-F-SD, CIA-RDP96-00788R001500100006-0, reproduced at p. 197 of the Loose Threads Report; the CREST record itself was not opened.
[^3]: Letter of July 26, 1985, BDM/W-SWB-0055-85, from the BDM Corporation to the CIA Office of Training and Education, bound with the CIA reply of August 29, 1985, CIA-RDP89-00955R000100060040-7, https://archive.org/details/cia-readingroom-document-cia-rdp89-00955r000100060040-7.
[^4]: "1985 Accomplishments, Office of Research and Development," CIA-RDP88G01332R000100070015-8, https://archive.org/details/cia-readingroom-document-cia-rdp88g01332r000100070015-8. The text gives the dates without a year; the document covers fiscal year 1985 and July 15 fell on a Monday in 1985, matching the agenda's "Monday" first session.
[^5]: Reproductions of James "Oke" Shannon's handwritten notes (supplied by Grant Cameron) and of Jack Houck's notes and handouts (supplied by Melinda Leslie), including form DOE F 5631.20 dated May 8, 1985 and the "Attendees" page, in the appendices of the Loose Threads Report, pp. 15, 166, 187-188, https://anomalyarchives.org/wp-content/uploads/PDF-Loose-Threads.pdf. The page images were read directly; the originals were not seen.
[^6]: Elizondo and Hermetic Penetrator, Loose Threads Report, pp. 14-33, 52-62, https://anomalyarchives.org/wp-content/uploads/PDF-Loose-Threads.pdf. Vallee's journal entries are quoted there without volume numbers; the 1989 call falls in the period of *Forbidden Science: Volume Three* (1980 to 1989) and the entries of February and August 1990 in that of Volume Four (*The Spring Hill Chronicles,* 1990 to 1999), neither of which was opened; the Cameron, Dolan and broadcast statements are likewise quoted at second hand. Sole source for the passages so cited.
[^7]: Basterfield, Keith. "Jacques Vallee and the 'Secret Onion,'" December 21, 2016, quoting Vallee, *Forbidden Science: Volume Three,* pp. 242 and 480 (the p. 480 text, which refers to Alexander's February 2011 book, is a note by Vallee), https://anomalyarchives.org/collections/file/atp-aka-secret-onion/. The book was not opened.
[^8]: Blum, Howard. *Out There: The Government's Secret Quest for Extraterrestrials.* Simon and Schuster, 1990, introduction and part 1, read in the Internet Archive item howard-blum-out-there (open full text), https://archive.org/details/howard-blum-out-there.